Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God? (Making Sense of the Fiasco at Wheaton)
Posted on January 31, 2016 1 Comment
In case you missed it, there is a bit of a situation going on at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois. It’s an increasingly long and currently developing story, and you can check out some of the sources below for further reading; otherwise you can skip and read the summary I have below.
It all began when Larycia Hawkins, one of Wheaton’s tenured professors, made the following post to her Facebook page:
The controversy comes in reference to these comments:
I stand in religious solidarity with Muslims because they, like me, a Christian, are people of the book. And as pope Francis stated last week, we worship the same God.
Shortly afterwards, Hawkins was placed on paid leave so that the school board could address her unusual comments and try to gain more clarity about her statements. Hawkins, however, refused to meet with the school’s leadership and instead held a press conference calling for supporters and criticizing the school’s actions towards her. Currently, the school is in the process of firing Hawkins, although it is turning out to be a more complicated procedure than one might expect.
First Things First
Let’s be clear about a few things. First, no one really knows the whole situation that is going on at Wheaton except for those individuals directly involved. It is entirely possible that there are a number of significant details to this story that have yet to surface, details that would skew how we would view either side of this situation. So those of us on the outside looking in should be slow to pass judgment.
Secondly, there are a number of complicated layers to the events that make it a bit harder to sort through. For instance, though the school explicitly stated that Hawkins’ remarks about Christians and Muslims worshipping the “same God” is the reason for the investigation, others have suggested is has more to do with her decision to wear a hijab. There is also the complication of Hawkins’ status as a tenured professor and how it is not a simple practice to discipline or fire a staff member of that rank. Furthermore, some have raised the question of whether or not Hawkins’ statement technically violated the school’s Statement of Faith. And even beyond all of this, there is the curious point about Hawkins refusing to meet with school staff to clear up the issue but rather going directly to the press to plead her cause. What conversations happened behind closed doors that let it get this far this quickly? We simply do not know for sure. And what about confidentiality issues? Or the place of religious freedom and diversity in a school of religious education? Some have even gone as far as to make it about sexism or racism.
Because this matter is so complicated, and the details still emerging, I’ll comment very little on the actual situation. What I do want to address however is the comment that started it all.
Do Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
Christians and Muslims agree on some things about the nature of God. Both religions believe in a single, all-powerful, ever-present Being who is absolutely holy and just, the creator of all, the giver of life and the governing God of the universe. Both Christians and Muslims can agree on these things. Because of this, some people are comfortable (such as Hawkins) stating that ultimately both religions are pursuing the same God. The only difference between the two, it is supposed, is that each religion has a different understanding of the details: how God interacts with human beings, which prophets he spoke through, the means to pleasing him, to name a few.
It is true that there are some Muslims, some Christians, and some from other religious vantage points who believe that both religions worship the same God. This is not a street-level argument. There have been academic level arguments put forward by both Muslim and Christian scholars in support of this view. Justin Taylor from the Gospel Coalition has put together a list of those who have taken various stances on the issue.
I don’t pretend to be a Christian scholar or an academic comparable to anyone on the list. But at the same time, it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the solution to this dilemma. It makes sense, at least for those of us who are Christians, to ask a simple question: What did Jesus say about how to know God?
Jesus Seals the Deal
Thankfully, Jesus did not leave us in the dark on such a controversial and significant issue. Rather, it is quite the opposite. Jesus resoundingly and repeatedly addressed this very thing. The gospel of John in particular records statements where Jesus clearly said that any person or religion who rejects him is ultimately rejecting God.
- John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
- John 5:23 Whoever does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.
- John 8:19 You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
- John 8:42 If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here.
- John 12:44 Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
- John 14:6 I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
It really is this simple: if you don’t believe in Jesus, you have no idea who God is. You don’t know him. You might disagree with that, but at the very least you can’t deny it’s what Jesus taught and therefore what Christians ought to believe. Over and over again Jesus said that the litmus test for whether or not you know God, are forgiven by God, honour God, believe in God, or have a relationship with God is whether or not you reject Jesus.
Make no mistake about it: every devout Muslim rejects Jesus as the means to God, as God in the flesh, as the Saviour of the world, as the access point to the Creator of all. There’s not a single Muslim on the planet who worships Jesus or believes on him for eternal life. What does that mean? Well, according to Jesus, it means that not one single Muslim on the planet knows God or loves God or serves God.
Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. Jesus could not be more clear!
The Sum of the Matter
It really is staggering that a Christian College would be under fire for not supporting a staff member who so blatantly dismisses some of the core teachings of Jesus. Again, there could be more to this issue than meets the eye. But that anyone within the Christian community would support the belief that Muslims and Christians worship the same God is a testimony to the feeble condition of Christianity in our culture. Only in the cozy confines of North America can so-called Christian scholars make such absurd declarations and get away with it. I can assure you, it would not be taken too keenly by either Christians or Muslims living in the Middle East!
Let’s just face reality: Jesus is divisive. To be sure, Jesus also unites, by bringing together those who love and serve him. But for those who reject him, Jesus is the dividing line between life and death, heaven and hell, truth and falsehood, God and Satan. Jesus did not come so that people could dismiss him and make up their own truths about God. Rather, he came to reveal God. And as such, he is the authority on this subject. The rest of us need to sit at his feet and take his instruction to heart.
I am hoping that the situation at Wheaton resolves itself in the most peaceful manner possible. But, unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be trending this way. Instead it is garnering national headlines for all the wrong reasons and stirring up false teaching about the faith that brings eternal life. Please be in prayer for all of those involved and, as a follower of Jesus, do not back down in cowardice to the backlash that the gospel brings. Only in the true preservation and proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is there hope for lost sinners.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)
Saved By God, From God, To God, For God
Posted on January 15, 2016 Leave a Comment
One of the things that has caused me to grow in my faith the most is having a clearer picture of salvation. The saving of sinners is the pinnacle display of God’s grace and power and love, and is the central subject of worship among believers. Therefore, to grasp the workings of God in saving sinners like you and I is to fuel the fire of our faith and stoke the flames of our praise. It is what is needed to stir up greater affection and devotion in following the Lord. Consider these four simple, yet profound, truths about salvation.
We Are Saved By God
Jonah 2:9 declares “Salvation belongs to the Lord!” This simple statement is meant to give all of the credit for salvation to God and God alone. Though it is true that we are called upon to exercise faith in Christ Jesus, the reality is that any person who puts their trust in God is the product of divine intervention. Without God moving in power among us, no one would ever desire salvation.
No one seeks for God. (Romans 3:11)
The only reason a person believes in Jesus for salvation is because God opens their eyes to their need for a Saviour and the sufficiency of Jesus to be that Saviour.
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:6)
Up until that point, a person is blind in their sin. They cannot see Jesus for who he really is, and until God shines his light into their hearts, they will never change their minds.
It comes down to this: what makes one person hear the gospel and respond by loving it, and another person hear the same gospel and respond by thinking it’s stupid? The answer is: God gave one the light to see and not the other. That is the point of 2 Corinthians 4:3-6. God shines light into dark hearts so that they can see and love Jesus, and until then there is nothing but darkness. Salvation is an act of God!
Consider another example. The power of sin in the life of an unbeliever is invincible. A person who is not born again is powerless to overcome their own sin.
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. (John 8:34)
And, in their own sinful condition, they will reject the gospel. It’s not even that they won’t receive the gospel; it’s that they can’t. Sin is too powerful.
For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:7-8)
Unless God supernaturally breaks through a person’s fleshly hostility to him, they will never be saved. It is impossible. But God has mercy on sinners and through various means will move on their behalf. Salvation is an act of God!
In the act of salvation, God is the initiator. It is never the sinner who makes the first step. God is the one who sent Christ to die “while we were still sinners”. God is the one who draws sinners to himself. God is the one who gives them eyes to see, ears to hear, and faith to believe. God is the one who gives new life. And God is the one who sustains our faith.
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)
If you are a Christian, you must give all of the credit to God. Do not take any for yourself. Some Christians mistakenly believe that they are simply wiser than the average Joe and figured out their need for the gospel by their own intellect. This is decidedly not the case. If ever you saw your sinful condition and turned to Christ to resolve it, you have God to thank, from beginning to end.
If you are still unconvinced, the story of Jesus and Nicodemus ought to seal the deal. Jesus tells Nicodemus the path to salvation: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Jesus is speaking of a spiritual re-birth. Just as a physical birth introduces new life to the world, a spiritual birth introduces new life as well. This analogy is significant. If ever there was an event where the beneficiary had nothing to do with it, birth is a good candidate. A baby born did nothing to be created or born. It happened apart from their own will. And in case you think that I am stretching the analogy too far, Jesus makes clear he intends for us to take away that point by what he says next:
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. (John 3:7-8)
Jesus says to look at the wind. Do you see where it came from, or where it is going? No, it simply blows whenever it blows and you have no control over it and no way of knowing when it’s coming or not. The wind has a will of it’s own. Jesus says that being born again is like that. You are a lifeless kite, lying in the sand. And one day the wind blows and you rise to life! But you did nothing to make it happen or to deserve it or to make it continue. It was simply an act of God.
If you are a believer in Jesus, you have much to be grateful for! You have been saved, despite your own resistance and inability and undeservedness, by God nothing less than the mercy of God.
We Are Saved From God
To be “saved” implies that there is something we must be saved from. The question must be asked: from what is the Christian delivered?
You can answer that question a number of ways and be correct. You could say “we are saved from ourselves”, for we each are like sheep that have wandered off on our own self-destructive paths. You could say “we are saved from Satan”, for we are all under the rule of the god of this world. You could say “we are saved from hell”, for we all are deserving of punishment for our sins. You could say “we are saved from death”, for the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
These are all true. But there is something even greater. The truth is that we are saved from God himself – so says the Word of God:
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. (Romans 5:9)
It is not surprising that many stumble over this reality. Even some self-professing Christian teachers have suggested it is absurd to believe that we need to be saved from God. One popular teacher, at this notion, quipped “What kind of God is that, that we would need to be saved from him? How could that God ever be trusted?” It is a legitimate question but it is not a biblical one. The God of the Bible is holy, and he has resolved to let no evil go unpunished.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:31)
The truth of the matter is that God’s wrath burns toward sinners, and though the outpouring is delayed a while, it will not be withheld forever. How peculiar then is it to think that God saves us from himself? The God who has resolved to settle the debts of sin is also the God who is willing to pay the bill. Who is like this God? I know no person who expresses righteous fury at the wickedness of another who has sinned against him, and yet takes it upon himself to resolve the conflict in a way that benefits the wrongdoer at the expense of himself. That is sheer grace in motion. What a God! He is wrath-giver and wrath-quencher all in one.
We Are Saved To God
It is a good question to ask, what is point of being forgiven? What I mean is that forgiveness itself is only of a limited benefit unless it is a means to a greater end. For instance, is the point of forgiveness the alleviation of guilt? Certainly that is a wonderful benefit, but it is only a side benefit. There is something greater for which forgiveness aims to give us.
The true goal of salvation, the forgiveness of sin, is to be reconciled to God.
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God… (1 Peter 3:18)
The point of being saved is to be brought into a right relationship with God. One pastor has offered a helpful analogy. Imagine that a husband has acted in a way towards his wife that was harsh and unloving. He clearly has sinned against her. He knows it and she knows it. For a time, the house is a cold place to be. She ignores him and he feels it is deserved. Yet, after some reflection and the mustering up of humility, he goes to his wife and asks for her forgiveness. What is the point of such a request? It could be that he is fearful she won’t make dinner that night, or that the kids will come home soon and notice the tension, or that he secretly hopes to go on a golf retreat and needs her to be in a good mood before telling her. These are all real possibilities, but they are not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is that he wants her back. What he desires in not the side benefits of forgiveness but rather a restored relationship with the forgiver. He desires reconciliation.
So it is with us and God. The purpose of salvation is that we would be brought back into a restored relationship with him. We are not merely saved from something with no new destination in mind. Rather, we are saved from something to be brought to something – or, more accurately, we are saved to be brought to someone.
It is a mighty sign of love that God would desire a relationship with us. Who are we compared to him? Nothing but small, insignificant creatures. Yet God does not see us that way. He sees us as valuable and important to him. And he loves us enough to cross heaven and earth to die on a bloody cross so that we can be together forever. What greater love is there than this?
We Are Saved For God
As if all of this is not remarkable enough, God intends for our salvation to be of use in his sovereign plan. God does not save us so that we may sit on a comfy sofa, fold our hands and enjoy the ride. Rather, he saves us with the intention of bringing us into the work that he is doing in the world. He offers to partner with flawed, weak, limited people like us in order to accomplish the miraculous.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)
Our new birth in Christ is “for” good works. That is part of the purpose of salvation. God ransoming us from sin and making us into new creations is so that he can unleash us into the world to serve others and bring God glory.
…all things were created through him and for him. (Colossians 1:16)
The remarkable truth is that we were created for Christ. We belong to him. Our life course is subject to his direction and our life callings are subject to his decrees. We are not saved so that we might wander aimlessly. Christianity is somewhat of a paradox. We are most free when we are a slave of Christ, and we are most enslaved when we aim to escape the rulership of Christ. He is to be our Lord and Shepherd, and we belong to him as part of his flock. He is our cherished possession, and we are his cherished possession. Our salvation is much to our own benefit, but it is not just for us. It is also for God. That he would develop a plan of salvation that was mutually beneficial to both us and himself is a testament to God’s wisdom and love and creativity.
Life is God-Centred!
The reason God orchestrated the universe in such a way as to put himself at the centre is that he might get all the glory. This is a beautiful thing! As Paul reflects on the path of salvation through Romans (not much unlike has been done here), there is nothing left for him to say except to fall on his knees in praise and lift up his voice in awe of God. It is fitting to have the same response here:
Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Romans 11:33-36)
The Sentence That Should Have Ended
Posted on January 14, 2016 1 Comment
As I was reading my Bible the other day, a thought struck me from my time in the gospel of Mark. Recorded in Mark 3:1-6 is a brief but powerful story about Jesus healing a man with a withered hand. The account begins:
Again he entered the synagogue, and a man was there with a withered hand. [2] And they watched Jesus, to see whether he would heal him…
Now if the sentence had ended there, everything would be great. Here comes Jesus, the most interesting and controversial and exciting person on the planet. He shows up at the local synagogue, and not surprisingly, everyone follows him there. Jesus had a way with drawing together a crowd. The people cram inside, and try to find a place where they can see and hear everything that is about to happen. After all, when Jesus shows up, something crazy is bound to go down!
So there they are, huddled in the synagogue, and they see Jesus take notice of a man up near the front who has a withered hand. Chances are the people know this young man. He’s probably a local, and people with disabilities – for better or worse – just tend to stick out. Jesus and the young man make eye contact. Jesus’ expression changes. He begins to move towards the man. There is a sense of anticipation in the air. Mark says “they watched Jesus, to see whether he would heal him…” And who could blame them? I’d be watching like an eagle too! If someone is gonna get healed, I want to see it! Show me the miracle!
Blind to Beauty
Except, that’s not really how it happened. The sentence doesn’t end there.
And they watched Jesus, to see whether he would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse him.
Oh.
That changes things, doesn’t it? That sheds a slightly different vantage point on the moment. It turns out that the crowd – in particular the Herodians and the Pharisees – weren’t really there to see the miracle in order to rejoice in it. They weren’t there to see this young man receive healing. They weren’t there to celebrate the wonderful thing that Jesus was about to do.
No, they were there with a different agenda. They were there to trap Jesus. To catch him doing something “unlawful”. To see if he would slip up and sin by a technicality. To find fault with him. To find reason to pounce on him and take him down.
They had no love. Not for Jesus. Not for the man. They only thing they loved at that moment was their own sense of power.
Isn’t this so sad? Here is the opportunity of a lifetime! The chance to see the Son of God in action, to not only see a genuine miracle, but at the hands of Christ no less! Does it get any more fantastic than that? And yet, because of their hardness of heart, they miss the whole thing. Jesus does indeed heal the man. Yet instead of rejoicing and celebrating and worshipping, the people immediately begin to plan how to destroy Jesus.
This story started out so well! If only the sentence had ended. If only the events had unfolded as they should have. If only the people were willing to let Jesus be the centre of attention instead of hogging the glory for themselves. If only the people were interested in loving the man with the withered hand, instead of being obsessed with their own made up rules about the Sabbath. If only they saw Jesus for who he really was. If only….
Hard Hearts Still Blind People
Here’s the truth: This is not an isolated event. This is not something out of the ordinary. And I’m not just talking about the response from people in Jesus’ day. Sure, it was common for people to resist Jesus during his life. He did get murdered after all! But I’m talking about the present day, the people of the world in general and you and I included. The reality is that many of us miss what Jesus is doing because of our own selfish motives. We have our own ideas about what God should be doing and how he should be doing it. Yet Jesus doesn’t march to the beat of our drum. He is the sovereign Lord of the universe. He does as he pleases. He works in people’s lives the way he sees fit, and some of us are so caught up in our own little world that we miss the chance to see a miracle.
How does this make Jesus feel? We don’t have to speculate the answer. Mark tells us (vs. 5):
And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart…
Jesus was ticked off. He was mad. He was not at all pleased with the response. Most of the time we picture Jesus as loving and compassionate and merciful, and rightly so! Jesus is all of those things. He is about to demonstrate it in the very next verse by healing the man’s withered hand. But Jesus is not that way towards those who resist him. Jesus is not lovey-dovey with people who aim to corner him, to usurp his authority, to dismiss him as less than who he really is.
Humble Yourself Before Jesus!
There is a lesson here for all of us. The lesson is this: Jesus demands not only our full attention, but our full surrender and our full affection. Many people speak of Jesus or express interest in him. But this is not enough. The crowd that gathered there was interested in Jesus. They were just not interested in Jesus in the right way. They were only interested in what fault they could find in him. They wanted to know how they could dismiss him, how to chalk him up as a fraud, cast him off to the side, and get rid of him as a threat to their own throne.
People do this very thing today. They read the Bible, but not to learn it. They read it to mock it. People read the gospels, but not to discover Jesus. They read it to discredit him. People constantly encounter Jesus and instead of listening to him and following him, they seek to eliminate him by any means possible. And such people are met with the anger of Jesus, because they do not give the King the honour he is due.
If only the sentence had ended. If only the people’s hearts were in the right place. If only they cared more about what God wanted than what they wanted. If only they were willing to give up the reigns of their lives and turn them over to Jesus. If only they had the humility to worship Jesus as God instead of worshipping themselves as god.
If only…
What kind of person will you choose to be?
The Best Volunteers Are F.A.T.
Posted on January 5, 2016 Leave a Comment
Disclaimer – I write “Leadership Moments” for the volunteers at my church who work in the youth ministry. Each Leadership Moment is meant to equip the everyday youth worker with the knowledge and skills they need to disciple teens as best as they can. Because these articles are for people I know personally and meant for my own church and city context, they may not always be relevant to the wider public. However I put them here for anyone who might benefit from their content.
Most churches are carried on the backs of volunteers, and for them I praise God! But we all know that not all volunteers are created equal. Some are awesome and some are lacking in awesomeness (that’s a real term, right?). I can say from experience that there is nothing quite like a team of great volunteers working together. But what is it that makes one volunteer stand out from another?
The answer is that the best volunteers are F.A.T.! It is an acronym that has endured for decades, partly because it is catchy, partly because it is true, and partly because it is easy to remember. It’s also borderline politically incorrect, but let’s just pretend we didn’t notice and move on.
The best volunteers are:
Faithful
Being faithful to a ministry means you are invested in it. You care about how things are going. You don’t just slip in and slip out, doing the minimal amount of work required of you. A faithful volunteer is one who desires to see the mission move forward, and takes personal responsibility to do their part to make it happen.
Just as people are more likely to notice that a restaurant is dirty rather than it being clean, it is sometimes easier to recognize a volunteer who isn’t faithful than one who is. A volunteer who isn’t faithful might exhibit some of these characteristics:
- Often late without a valid reason
- Forgets to fulfill their responsibilities
- Is quick to take time off
- Will quit once it doesn’t seem fun anymore
- Knows the policies but doesn’t follow through on them
- Shows up unprepared
- Seems disinterested at team meetings
Sadly, most ministries are better off with a void at a volunteer position rather than having an unfaithful person filling that slot. Consider the calling that God has placed on all of his Kingdom workers:
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:23-24)
Available
Volunteers are only good if they consistently show up. Some people have a genuine heart, a real and godly desire to help out. But some of those people simply don’t have the open schedule to pull it off. They mean well, but they end up making commitments that they can’t follow through on.
This is just the way life is. It’s busy! But it is important for people to know that if they are going to commit to something, they need to be able to have the time to give it adequate attention. You can be the most gung-ho volunteer in the world, but if you simply have too many things on the go, you’ll end up being ineffective.
Great volunteers show up. They come early and stay late. They do their best not to miss important meetings. They aren’t multitasking personal tasks while trying to do ministry work. They are present in every sense of the word: physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally.
Teachable
Another mark of a great volunteer is having a teachable spirit. There is no place for pride in God’s work. Sometimes volunteers – especially those with lots of experience or strong skills – feel like they know it all, that training and teamwork are important for others but not for them. This is a destructive mentality. Good ministry work happens when team members work together. In fact, one of the most destructive things to the advancement of ministry work is conflict between ministry workers. It was something that the early church dealt with (1 Corinthians 1:10, Philippians 4:2), and it is something that every church still deals with.
The truth is that we all have room for growth. We all have areas we can improve, and ways that other people can stretch us and help us become more effective. Being teachable is about having a spirit of humility, one that is willing to have your ideas challenged and take on the role of a servant, doing what needs to happen for the greater good.
Questions for Reflection
- Out of these three areas, which one do you think you struggle with the most?
- How can you aim to improve in that area?
Making a Case for 45-Minute Sermons
Posted on January 4, 2016 1 Comment
In the church that I serve as youth pastor, we regularly schedule a 45-minute time slot for the Sunday sermon. By some standards, this is normal. By many standards, this is very long. But there are only a handful of people in our congregation who object to that length of time. In fact, yesterday I preached a sermon at our church that was 1 hour and 1 minute long. I’d be the first to admit that it was too long, but not one person complained about it.
The Bible does not say how long sermons should be, but it does record many accounts of sermons being preached. Some appeared to be quite short, especially ones that were spontaneous, like Peter’s sermon at Pentecost or Stephen’s final words before martyrdom. Other sermons appeared to be wayyyy longer than an hour, such as Jesus’ sermons that ran so long he needed to miraculously feed the people, or Paul’s sermon in Troas that went on past midnight and caused some poor man to fall asleep and fall out a window!
I have no data to back up this claim, but I’m guessing that the average sermon length in the average church is somewhere around 30 minutes long. I have no qualms with that. But I also know that 30 minutes on a week-in, week-out basis would not cut it for me. Here are a few reasons I tend to both preach and support the preaching of 45-minute sermons.
1. Preaching is God’s ordained means of saving people and sanctifying them.
God desires to save sinners, and the way he intends for that to happen is through the sharing of the good news. Romans 10:14 and 17 says “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?…. So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” The Holy Spirit anoints the faithful preaching of the Word and uses it to cause sinners to be born again.
The preaching of God’s Word is also a primary means of sanctification. Christians grow by hearing the Word preached, as Jesus affirmed when he said in John 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.” In this sense, what both believers and unbelievers desperately need is the truth to be declared to them for the betterment of their souls. John MacArthur remarks:
You wouldn’t withhold food from a starving man. Nor would you deny air to a drowning child. Frankly, that kind of monstrous behaviour is hard to imagine. But that’s effectively what many pastors and church leaders are guilty of today, as they withhold that which is vital to the spiritual lives of their people: God’s Word.
For this reason, I believe a significant portion of a Christian gathering ought to be dedicated to the preaching of the Word. It should not be a side-note. Nor should it take a back-seat to worship. Rather, truth is what fuels worship. So if we structure our gatherings to be skimpy on Word and heavy on worship, we are actually killing the worship that we intend to call forth. Worship is meant to be a truth-based exaltation of God, and if the hearing and meditating of truth is minimized, then so will be the genuineness and strength of our worship.
2. Good preaching doesn’t assume everyone is with you.
In a gathering of any size, there are going to be people coming from all sorts of backgrounds. You will have a mixture of believers, unbelievers, skeptics, long-time church goers, first-time church goers, young people, old people, intellectual people, emotional people, and so on. Therefore, the wise preacher will keep this in mind when he takes up the Word to preach it. He should understand that, the more that he assumes the people are with him, the more likely he is to leave a bunch of people behind and preach a sermon of minimal effectiveness.
This means that preaching is going to take a lot of variation and work and preparation. The preacher should not assume that people know what he means by “justification” or “walking with the Lord” or “receiving Christ as your Saviour”. He should not assume that the people present believe in the authority of the Word, or the goodness of God, or the oncoming judgment of man. There are a thousand factors at play, and while it is impossible to acquiesce to them all, we should to at least some. An explanation of terms, putting a text in context, or a brief overview of a subject (similar to a systematic theology) is sometimes a helpful or necessary thing.
Here is the reality of the world in which we live: less and less people are biblically literate. When it comes to the good Book, people simply have no idea what’s in there or how to make sense of it. This means that good preaching will be more than a declaration of truth. It will also be a systematic unfolding of it. Good preaching aims to build a Christian worldview. In order to do that, you need to deconstruct existing worldviews first in order to put new ones in place. You may need to dedicate 15 minutes to exposing the flaws of a evolutionary mindset before even touching a passage in Genesis. Or you will need to thoroughly explain what forgiveness is NOT before you say what it is. Again, this kind of thing has to be limited (otherwise it would go on forever), but regularly bringing it into sermons is a wise practice.
3. Good preaching anticipates objections and addresses them.
The epistle to the Romans is perhaps the Bible’s best example of anticipating objections and addressing them in advance. After stating a truth, Paul imagines the readers raising issue with the statement, and therefore aims to tackle it head on before going any further. A few examples from chapters 6-9:
- Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!
- Romans 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
- Romans 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means!
- Romans 7:13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means!
- Romans 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
- Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
- Romans 9:19-20 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?
This overall pattern is a good one for preachers to follow. When we proclaim the truth of the Word, we should expect that many of the hearers will disagree. What a good preacher can do is try to anticipate what the most common objections will be, and then build a response to them into his sermon. This will take time to do properly, which means a longer sermon. But it also means that you are less likely to have people walk away thinking you are naive or deluded, or with issues that were left unaddressed.
4. Good preaching moves into the world of the Bible and back out again.
The Bible crosses both time and cultures, which means that it is impossible to simply put it forth into our modern, Western world without a little explanation. What’s this business with head coverings? Why should we be giving holy kisses? What’s the big deal about Jesus riding on a donkey?
Or, if you back it up into the Old Testament, things get even more complicated. Since when does God command the execution of disobedient children? What’s with all the slaughtering and burning of sheep? And why is everyone always talking about circumcision?
In order for people to get all that the Bible has to offer, we first need to take them into the world of the Bible and help them to experience it first hand. Our job as preachers is to use the human imagination to cross cultures and time, get the fullness of what’s going on, and then come back out into present-day reality and figure out how it affects us today. This cannot be done in 5 minutes. It’s going to take time. And, if done well, I believe it can be very interesting and powerful!
5. Good preaching teaches people how to read the Bible.
Preaching is like cooking: just as a chef whips up a meal to serve the people, so a preacher prepares a spiritual meal to feed to the sheep. This is perfectly fine, but it is my conviction that a good preacher can do more than give banquets every Sunday. He can also take his people into the kitchen and show them how he got from point A to point B.
If a preacher is concerned with his own vanity, he will aim to preach sermons that make the people look at him in awe and wonder, “How does he do that?” But we are not called to puff up our own image. We are called to build up the body of Christ. In humility, a preacher can make it his aim to not just teach the Bible but also teach people how to read the Bible for themselves. This is one benefit of expository preaching. Aptly named, expository preaching aims to take what a given text says and “expose” it for all to see. It is simply trying take what the Bible already says and draw it out. It is good for a pastor not just to make a good point in his sermon, but to show his people how to find it in the text. One of my goals, as much as I can, is to teach the Bible in such a way that when people look at a given passage they can say to themselves, “Ok, I see where he got that from.” In doing so, I am slowly equipping them to go home and do the same for themselves.
6. Good preaching applies the truth.
After all of the above is said and done, we still haven’t gotten to the place of application. What does a specific truth mean to my life? How does it affect me? If those questions are left unanswered by a sermon, the preacher has not completed his task. Truth demands a response. It is our job to unfold the truth as clearly as we can, and then call people to appropriate action. Sometimes this will require an illustration, a story, a personal account. These kind of things help to bring the reality home in a practical way. They are valuable tools when leveraged well, and so a certain amount of time for every sermon ought to be set aside for helping the people understand their responsibility to act in light of the Word they have heard.
Preach It Up!
If these 6 areas (and I suppose many others could be mentioned) are given proper attention, it should be easy to fill a 45-minute time slot. I almost always find myself struggling with what to leave on the cutting room floor rather than trying to fill up empty space. Granted, a good sermon is not mainly about length. It is mainly about content and Holy Spirit empowerment. But there is still a place for working on improved preaching, for more effective communication that strikes to the heart of those listening. I suppose that some people might not have the skill to preach for 45-minutes and have it not be painfully boring (I know I didn’t early on). But over time, as a preacher hones his craft, he ought to come to the place where people are blessed under his teaching ministry. Pray and labour to that end, for it really is a matter of life and death.
Sample Youth Worker Job Description
Posted on January 1, 2016 Leave a Comment
Here is what we currently use for our volunteer youth workers as their job description. Feel free to take and use whatever you’d like!
SPIRITUAL QUALIFICATIONS FOR VOLUNTEERS
Being an effective leader requires both character and competence. We believe having one without the other destroys the effectiveness of any leader. Competence is having the skills necessary to complete the job, and can easily be acquired. Character, on the other hand, is having the integrity that being a Christian leader requires.
Character, unlike competence, is not easily acquired but comes through walking with Jesus on a daily basis, repenting of sin, and allowing the Holy Spirit to make us more like Christ. We don’t expect perfection, but we do want our leaders to live exemplary Christian lives that youth can learn from and imitate. Below is a basic list of what we require spiritually from our youth workers.
- A profession of faith and commitment to Jesus as Savior and Lord
- Active participation in church life and nurturing your own Christian walk throughout the week
- Ongoing prayer for the youth of BFC and the community
- A humble, team-oriented attitude and willingness to follow the leadership of the church
- A lifestyle that demonstrates Christian character, including in public and through social media
VOLUNTEER JOB DESCRIPTION
Your job in one sentence:
Help high school students become disciples of Jesus.
Duties:
- Regularly attend and contribute to youth events (weekly & special events).
- Attend any youth leader team meetings.
- Keep in contact with ministry leader concerning availability and issues that arise.
- Adhere to the church’s Child Safety & Abuse Policy.
- Build relationships with students so as to influence them positively.
- Lead small group discussion and prayer time when required.
- Help create a healthy atmosphere by enforcing the 4 basic rules.
- Keep up with “Leadership Moment” material.
- Participate in mentoring youth in 1-on-1 settings.
- Contribute to the ministry in one other specific way, such as helping with:
- Substitute Bible teaching
- Planning of events
- Preparing snacks
- Organizing games and activities
- Helping with media
Length of commitment:
12 months (September – August)
Time required:
Approx. 3-5 hours per week
There’s Only One Resolution You Need To Make
Posted on December 31, 2015 Leave a Comment
That time of year is upon us again, the time when we get all sentimental about the year that was and all hopeful about the one that will be. We’re a little older (definitely), a little wiser (maybe), a little fatter (probably), and a little bit more resilient (hopefully). And, for many of us, it’s time to begin that process of looking ahead over the next 12 months and thinking about where we want to be in life, and what changes we need to make to get there.
I’m a goal-oriented kind of person. I’ve done the New Year’s Resolution thing before. For the past three or four years, I’ve laid out really specific goals: how many books I want to read, how much money I want to save, how many blog posts I want to write, how many dates I want to have with my wife, and so on. And, to be honest, it has been a really helpful exercise. I think that it has improved my productivity. I will likely trim down my list this year, but I still find value in putting a few targets out there to aim for over the course of the year. It helps to keep me focused and on point.
But I can also say that beyond a shadow of a doubt, there is really only one resolution that I need to make each year. One that automatically qualifies. One that is non-negotiable. One that, if I blow it in this area, the other ones don’t make up for it. One that is a life-or-death reality. One that comes out at the top of the priority list, no matter what it is compared to.
I need to spend time with God every day.
You know it. I know it. We just stink at it. We all deal with the same things. Life gets busy, our calendar gets jammed up with all sorts of “important” things, our days are crammed with a million things to do, and before you know it, we fall into bed exhausted from the day, just wanting a moment of peace and quiet before we doze off and do it all over again tomorrow.
This is suicide.
I don’t think that’s an overstatement. Jesus said in Matthew 4:4 (quoting Moses) ‘It is written,
“‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”‘
Question: Did you have time to eat today? Sure you did. Chances are you ate three meals today, plus snacks. Or maybe you had a crazy day and had to skip one. No difference really. The point is that you took time to nourish your body today. So did I. We do it every day, without fail. Unless we are stranded alone on a deserted island, or in extreme poverty, we always find a way to eat. It doesn’t even require habit; it’s just instinct.
This is how it should be with the Word of God. The Bible is food for the soul. Have you been feeling weak in your faith? It is because you are malnourished. Your soul needs a daily buffet to keep going at a proper pace, yet we all neglect such an important priority. The tyranny of the urgent takes over, God takes a back seat, and then we wonder why we fee like God is silent to us or, even worse, a fading reality.
A lack of holy bread can bring nothing but deterioration to our spiritual condition. Doubts growl loudly with starvation. Joy withers in waterless soil. Unforgiveness clings like cobwebs in a corner that hasn’t been swept in a while. Love sputters without fresh fuel for the tank. And we drift downstream when we don’t have the energy it takes to swim against the tide.
Spending time with God every day is the most important thing a believer can do. It affects all other areas of life for the better. We likely wouldn’t need to resolve to lose 30 pounds if we had been letting God satisfy us daily instead of comfort food. We likely wouldn’t need to resolve to get out of debt if we were so satisfied with Christ that we could say “no” to the sway of material things. We likely wouldn’t need to resolve to spend less time on our phones if we prioritized the love of neighbour that Jesus gives as the second command. We would be much healthier, happier, stable people if we just ate bread on a daily basis.
But it’s not just about eating bread. Sitting down for a brief nibble won’t suffice. Our time with God must be unhurried for it to have it’s due effect on us. Consider Psalm 1:
[1] Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
[2] but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night.
[3] He is like a tree
planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.
Meditation on God’s Word is put forth as the key to spiritual vitality. Meditation, in the biblical sense of the word, simply means to think deeply. It means to mull something over in your mind. It means that the goal is not just to read Scripture, but stay in it long enough for it to sink down to the bottom of our hearts. It means that we will spend time not just reading the Bible as if it’s a task to complete, but rather as if it is a pleasant conversation to have, a conversation with a dear Friend. As we read, we pray, we think, we re-read, we pray some more, we worship, we take enough time so that God has been given a proper place in the day. We eat a full meal. And if we make a habit of this on a daily basis, we will become strong, healthy Christians. Like the Psalm says, we will be like a tree planted by streams of water, a mighty oak that storms may bend but not break. Our roots will be sunk down deep and make us nearly impossible to upend. And our leaves will be green and lush, giving shade to others amidst the scorching heat of life.
I can say for certain that my own time with the Lord every day is the most important habit I have. I have not arrived at perfection. Some of my meals are mighty skimpy, and I miss one from time to time. But it is easily the most life-changing habit I’ve come across.
You need God. As the deer pants for water, so your soul pants for God. Deprive yourself no longer! Go to the table and eat. Kneel at the stream and drink. Commit this year to spending daily time with God, and just see what you may feel like and what you can do on a full stomach.
Work Boots (A Poem in Honour of My Father)
Posted on December 26, 2015 Leave a Comment
On October 3rd 2015, my father, Kenneth Martin Edgar, went home to be with the Lord at the age of 64. This is a poem I wrote a few days later in honour of him.
Work boots
Dusty, rusty, well-worn
There, sitting on the porch
Silent, but only after a hard day’s work
Every scuff a story
Story of a man providing
Work clothes
Or, in a sense, everyday clothes
Can you see him in anything else?
You can, but only because it looks weird
Navy blue, leather belt
Custom buckle about his waist
Scabs
Hands that went to war each day
Battle scars from the fight
No band-aids, ever
Wrenches and ratchets
The clinking sound is really a love song
Telephone
Does that thing ever shut up?
No, not really
Ring, ring, “Big Hook Towing”
No problem, help is on the way
Doesn’t matter that it’s 3am
Tow trucks
Even now, they’re still cool
Diesel rumble, equipment banging
A rescue vehicle of sorts
Makes sense actually
Superheroes don’t drive just anything
Cash
Why your shirt pocket?
I always thought it would fall out
Never did
At least, not that I know of
You’d never admit it anyway
Pills
Hard to swallow
Not for you I mean
For us
Made the pain tolerable
Not that you complained
Bed
Ahhh, finally!
The dented mattress shaped like you
A cozy nook to rest in
Well deserved
Turn on the game. What’s the score?
Hospital
Only because you had to
Boring as heck
Still with the corny jokes
Swelling, painful IV
Still, who’s complaining?
The Day
How’d it happen so fast?
Family there
Eyes open, one last time
We love you
Not the end
Home
Running, jumping, throwing
Like you’re young again
Precious reunions
Happy tears
With Christ
Sequel
This one’s not done yet
We’ll honour you
And not forget
Save a place
Be there soon
Short Prayers Are Awesome Too
Posted on December 17, 2015 Leave a Comment
In his excellent daily devotional Morning and Evening, Charles Spurgeon turns to the story of Jesus walking on water, on his entry dated for January 14th.
The story, recorded in Matthew 14:22-33, tells of the 12 disciples crossing the sea in a boat, when they hit a violent windstorm. Jesus comes to them, walking on the water, and the disciples initially think it may be a ghost. Peter shouts back, “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water”. Jesus did so, and Peter – impulsive as he often is – jumps out and begins to walk on the water also. But then, overcome by fear of the wind and waves, Peter begins to sink, and cries out “Lord, save me!” Jesus catches Peter, they get into the boat, the storm ceases immediately, and in their awe the disciples worship Jesus.
Spurgeon’s simple point from this story is that a good prayer doesn’t need to be a long prayer. In just three words, Peter says everything that needs to be said for the Lord to act on his behalf. Spurgeon comments:
Short prayers are long enough. There were but three words in the petition which Peter gasped out, but they were sufficient for his purpose. Not length but strength is desirable. A sense of need is a mighty teacher of brevity. If our prayers had less of the tail feathers of pride and more wing they would be all the better.
His observation is simple, yet profound. Our prayers do not need to be full of fancy, religious-sounding rhetoric, but rather simple words straight from the heart. Many of us struggle with believing that we don’t pray enough, and often this is true. But let us be reminded that prayer does not always need to be a lengthy exercise. Certainly, it is wise to slow down and spend time communing with God, and even Jesus spent sleepless nights in prayer as an example of its importance. But there are times and places for every kind of prayer, short and long. Let this story be an encouragement to you that prayer can be part of any moment of any day. Jesus can act mightily in response to just 3 simple words. All we need to do is utter them from sincerity of heart, and God will hear.
The Positive Impact of Mark Driscoll
Posted on December 7, 2015 Leave a Comment
There’s no question that Mark Driscoll is a lightning rod for controversy. Currently he is out of formal ministry work, other than running his own website with periodic updates and teaching content. The church he founded, formerly known as Mars Hill Church, has been dissolved for almost one year now. The ministries he led have either shut down (The Resurgence) or been passed on to other leadership (Acts 29 Church Planting Network). If his rise into the Evangelical limelight was considered to be astonishingly fast, then it is quite the feat that his fall was even faster.
I’m not here to stir up fresh debate about Mark Driscoll. Everyone knows that he had many flaws in his ministry and character (something he admits himself), and that Mars Hill was a church whose numerical growth outpaced it’s growth in maturity. You’ll get no rebuttal from me on either account.
Yet what I have seen by many, particularly those who were Driscoll opponents, is a collective sigh of relief that he no longer can spread his influence (harm?) on others. His church is shut down, his books removed from the shelves, and he himself knocked off his ridiculously high and influential platform. A cheer came from many within the Church at these events. Especially for those who hold different theological views than Driscoll, there was a sense of victory over his collapse. The attitude struck me as something like, “Thank goodness that man is out of view. Now we don’t have to worry about his influence anymore.”
If that’s the case, you’d be sorely mistaken.
Anyone who thinks that Mark Driscoll’s influence is over does not understand the impact this man has had on North American Christianity. It’s too late to stop it. He almost single-handedly pioneered the use of the internet as a tool for spreading the gospel, and for many years he was the most listened-to pastor online, perhaps on the planet. Those who were impacted by Driscoll’s teaching and leadership number in the millions. If anyone is trying to stop the ball he got rolling, it’s way too late for that.
I know this for sure, because I’m one of the many who have been positively influenced by Mark Driscoll.
I know that in saying that, I’m perhaps inviting all kinds of criticism on myself. I would simply say, hear me out. I do not condone everything Mark has ever said or done. Quite far from it. As I mentioned earlier, and as he has already admitted, he made plenty of mistakes over the course of his roughly 15 years in ministry. Many of those mistakes were not small. They were very significant, very sad, and very dangerous. Driscoll at times was like a loose cannon. He could blow holes in the Enemy’s ship, but he would often wound his own along the way. I get it, I don’t minimize it, and I don’t condone it.
Yet, at the same time, Mark Driscoll has had a profound and irreversible effect for good on my spiritual journey.
Back when I was first starting to question my Christianity, searching for answers to questions like Is the Bible reliable? and Did Jesus really rise from the dead?, one of the first helpers I found in my journey was the website of Mars Hill Church. This was back around 2004 when church websites mostly looked like they were built by 14-year olds using templates with blue fonts, yet Mars Hill had one of the best websites I had ever seen, Christian or not. That’s probably a really shallow reason for me to show interest at first, but as I started to listen to Mars Hill sermons online, I was stunned by what I heard.
Here was a man who taught the Bible like I had never heard before. His sermons were anything but fluffy. He pointedly addressed many of the issues I was wondering about and answered them impressively. He balanced a strong intellect with emotional zeal. He talked about topics that were relevant to my own life. He clearly did not care much for the praise of man. And he was willing to speak to controversial issues that others would dodge like their life depended on it.
Not only this, but Mark Driscoll showed me more clearly than anyone ever has that I was a person trapped in religion, and that I did not really understand the gospel at all. Even as someone who grew up in a Christian home, going to church my whole life, and having received Jesus into my heart about 1,000 times, never did my faith come to life like it did under the teaching at Mars Hill. I believe that either I was saved through the preaching of Driscoll, or my very dead faith was brought back to life. Either way, he was a crucial factor in restoring my walk with Jesus and bringing me to where I am now.
Additionally, I give Mark Driscoll huge credit for establishing in me a belief in the authority of God’s Word. Unlike so many tv preachers I had seen or celebrity pastors I heard, he seemed to take the Bible very seriously. He built his theology on the Scripture, even though initially I opposed many of his theological leanings. At a time when so many (like the Emergent Church) were undermining and questioning the Bible, he was standing on it firmly. I will forever appreciate that.
Mark Driscoll also argued more clearly than anyone I had heard of (up to that point at least) for the importance of gender distinctions and what it means to be a man according to the Bible. I give credit to my dad as the most influential person in shaping me into a man, but Driscoll helped as well by using the Scriptures to further illuminate those truths I had picked up from my dad along the way.
Additionally, Driscoll and the ministry of Mars Hill also got me connected to other fantastic ministries, such as The Gospel Coalition and Desiring God. I hate to say it, but I learned more from my time reading and listening to guys like Mark Driscoll, John Piper, Don Carson, Timothy Keller, Voddie Baucham, Kevin DeYoung, Matt Chandler, Ed Stetzer, and the likes, than I did in my entire time in Bible College. It is almost impossible to overstate the influence these men have had on my development as a Christian and leader, and I became exposed to them initially through Driscoll.
As you might expect, I had to un-learn some things from these men as well. But thankfully, as I’ve been able to grow in my discernment (I hope at least!), I’ve been able to take the good and leave the bad. But the imprint is there and will remain, I suspect, for the rest of my life.
And, I think, there are thousands more like me.
Thousands of young believers who have been impacted in a positive way by Mark Driscoll. Thousands of young men and women who have been brought into the Scriptures in a powerful way. Thousands who came to faith in Christ. Thousands who have forsaken man-made religion. Thousands who have responded to the call to leadership. Thousands who have established the authority of the Bible in their lives. Thousands who have formed a high view of doctrine and a high view of holiness. Thousands who are scattered all over this world, spreading that impact farther and farther. Thousands…or perhaps, more like hundreds of thousands.
That train is moving, and there’s simply no stopping it. I hope that those who have vehemently opposed Mark Driscoll will come to appreciate the good he has done in the lives of so many. That they will rejoice in the raising up of young, Bible-saturated, Jesus-loving Christians who take God’s mission seriously. That they can be grateful for the young men who are pursuing godly manhood, and young women pursuing godly womanhood. And for the rise in church planting. And world missions. And the valuing of good preaching. And so on and so on.
As with many things, Mark Driscoll’s impact is a big, tangled knot of good and bad. There’s no easy way to characterize it. But I know that, for me, and for many others, he was a key player in the development of my faith, and that in a positive way. What happened at Mars Hill is the closest thing I’ve seen to genuine revival in my lifetime. I tend to believe that it was God’s plan all along to raise up this movement and then suddenly have it implode. Perhaps it would have stagnated and died if it kept going as it was, and dispersing those involved was a more effective way to extend his Kingdom. Who knows for sure. But even if Mark Driscoll never resurfaces in the Evangelical world, never writes another book, never preaches another sermon (all things I doubt, but you never know), it does not mean that he’s gone for good. The positive things he has done for the Kingdom will live on through those who have been impacted for the better. And, though it stinks that it had to be so messy and painful, I think that is a good thing.
Canadian Bible Guy 